Thursday, 18 February 2010

Appendix :Third heaven

In this article I want to address hexes, curses, and other tactics of the dark side. First, let me say that there are different spiritual realms. Terminology may vary from various sources so let me put some definitions on what I am speaking about. In scriptural prophetic terms I want to define the first heaven as the natural skies and universe that is visible with the natural eye. The second heaven is the realm that angels pass through in transfer between natural earth and the third heaven where God dwells and all those redeemed in heaven. The second heaven is a realm where evil principalities also reside and operate from. Prophetic people will often be escorted under the protection of the Holy Spirit into the second heaven to observe demonic activity and plans. The purpose of this insertion by the Holy Spirit is to reveal the enemies plans and equip us to veto them.
Now here is how to disarm those strategies of the enemy. The devil is given strength to operate because of sin. Sin in an individuals life becomes an entrance for attacks meant to deceive, enslave or curse in some measure. However, for those who have a personal living relationship with Jesus Christ there is cleansing because of our faith in His blood that cleanses every sin. Knowing this truth gives a blood washed believer authority to reject curses of the devil or curses spoken through people against the believer. However, if believers don't know this information then they can be deceived into a default position and vulnerable to demonic curses. The devil deals in deception and lies. He will attack if we are unaware of the truth even if we are without sin because of the Blood of Jesus.
It is important therefore to have a Biblical base knowledge of truth. Specifically, that you are forgiven, that you belong to God and that through His strength can overcome everything the enemy brings against you. A Believer in Christ Jesus has been given authority to veto the devils plans against them. Read Matthew 10:1 and Mark 16:20 for this mandate. Also 1 John 4:4 indicates the same position of authority. Authority must be exercised. See Matthew 16:19.
When the Holy Spirit gives you a second heaven escort and the enemies plans are revealed to you then you can cancel the devils plans, curses and hexes. You do this by saying "In the authority of Jesus Christ and His blood I cancel and veto the plans of the devil against me. I release the blessing and favor of God in its place and I thank you Father in Heaven for your provision. Amen."
Prophetically, God wants us to come up higher into the third heaven where we can sit down with Christ and receive revelation for earth's journey. Ephesians 2:6 speaks of this place. From this heavenly place we have the mandate to release Heaven into earth.

The Firmament, Third Heaven,
 and Structure of Things Biblical

On the second day in the Genesis narrative the Lord calls for there to be a "firmament" in the "midst of the waters" to divide the waters:

The term "firmament" and its identity has been one of the greatest puzzles concerning the Creation account, mostly because of its Hebrew definition:

Most people interpret this to mean just the expanse of the sky (the atmosphere) or outer space, or both (which it is), but the full meaning goes well beyond that simplistic interpretation. The creation of the firmament is associated with the placement of some sort of structure.
Many modern scholars consign the term "firmament" as a relic of a pre-scientific culture and translate the Hebrew word "raqia" (rendered as "firmament" in the KJV) as a "dome" or "vault" in some modern Bibles.  The problem that puzzles people is the implication in the Hebrew language of the firmament being a firm, fixed structure (FIRMament). That structure can be explained in the context of the Ruin-Reconstruction interpretation of Genesis.
Young Earth Creationists have interpreted the "waters above the firmament" as a theoretical water canopy which once surrounded the Earth but no longer exists (their source of the waters of Noah's flood). This is incorrect, and a concept that does not exactly hold water (pun intended) when closely examined within the literal framework of the Genesis narrative. The reason is because of what is said in this passage:

verse says that the Sun, Moon, and Stars are IN the firmament. Therefore, applying the rules of grammar and logic, those waters that are above the firmament must be above the Sun, Moon and Stars. That means these waters are above the visible cosmos. For some this is a hard pill to swallow, but that is exactly what the Bible is saying.
"Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that [be] above the heavens."
(Psalms 148:4 KJV)
The Bible says that in the Lord Jesus Christ, the incarnate Word of God, all wisdom and knowledge is found (see Colossians 2:3). The same holds true for the Holy Scriptures, the written Word of God. According to the Scriptures, there is a physical/spiritual structure to the universe. The Apostle Paul makes reference to the importance of this knowledge in the book of Ephesians where he wrote:
"That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what [is] the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God."
(Ephesians 3:17-19 KJV)
Pay close attention to the structure of the grammar. Paul is speaking about two different things in this passage. The first is the structure of things ("the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;"), and the second is "to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge." The important key word here is the conjunction "And" which separates the two clauses.
In other words, Paul is saying there are two things the believer can and should know. 1) The dimensions and structure of all things, which can be defined. 2) The love of Christ, which is beyond full comprehension by man. A corollary to the truth of this passage is found in an Old Testament proverb:
"The heaven for height, and the earth for depth, and the heart of kings [is] unsearchable."
(Proverbs 25:3 KJV)
The firmament deals with the structure of the present heavens and Earth (Genesis 2:1), as opposed to the structure of the original heaven and Earth (Genesis 1:1). There is presently a three (3) heavens structure. In the old world of the original creation, there was a different configuration. Let's look back to Genesis 1:6 again and more closely examine that verse to determine that present structure:
"And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so."
(Gen 1:6-7 KJV)
On the second day of the creation, the Lord God "divided" the waters (plural) of the great "deep" into two parts with a "firmament" in the midst. According to Genesis 1:10, both the waters that were upon the face of the Earth and the waters which He placed ABOVE the firmament He called "Seas":
"And God called the dry [land] Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that [it was] good."
(Gen 1:10 KJV)
This is important to understand. We know that the waters on the Earth are called "Seas" in the Bible, but there is also another "Sea" that is spoken of in the Scriptures, and that one is above the firmament. (Special note:  Notice that the word "Sea" is capitalized at Genesis 1:10 in the KJV Bible). But, exactly where is "ABOVE" the firmament? During the six days of the Genesis regeneration the Lord God defined Three Heavens. The first heaven is the Earth's atmosphere:
"And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl [that] may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven."
(Gen 1:20 KJV)
The second heaven is the vast expanse of the physical universe - outer space as we call it:
"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"
(Gen 1:14 KJV)
These two heavens constitute a continuum called the "firmament," and this firmament is collectively called "Heaven":
"And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day."
(Gen 1:8 KJV)
The Third Heaven is above this higher "Sea," and this higher sea is before and below the Throne of God:
And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
(Revelation 4:6 KJV)
Therefore, this particular "Sea" above the firmament is above the known physical universe. Since the sun, moon and stars are "in" the firmament this "Sea" MUST be above them. This is difficult for the science of man to fathom, but it is a Scriptural fact on cosmology.  It represents a firm and impassable barrier between the world of man (below) and the abode of God (above). Here are some additional verses in the Bible which refer to this particular Sea:
"Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that [be] above the heavens."
(Psalms 148:4 KJV)
This is the "sea" that John saw in his visions:
"And before the throne [there was] a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, [were] four beasts full of eyes before and behind."
(Rev 4:6 KJV)
This is a present "Sea" of separation that will no longer exist when God destroys the old world and makes all things new after the 1,000-year Kingdom of Heaven and the final judgment that follows:
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."
(Revelation 21:1 KJV)
This is the sea that is spoken of in Exodus 20:11 and frequently quoted by Young Earth Creationists as a proof text to support their doctrine:
"For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."
(Exodus 20:11 KJV)
That reference to "the sea" in the above verse is a reference to the sea established above the firmament NOT to any sea on the Earth. Look at the English grammar of the verse. The heaven and Earth are set apart as separate and complete entities as is "the sea." That sea above the firmament was not made until the second day. There is something even more important to notice about these waters above the firmament. Look again at the passage concerning the second day:
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
(Genesis 1:6-8 KJV)
Something is missing there. Do you know what it is? Ok, I'll tell you. This work on the second day is the ONLY day in the Genesis narrative where the Lord does NOT say it "was good." Therefore, when you consider the statement the Lord makes in Genesis 1:31 where He says that all that was made was "very good"...
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
(Genesis 1:31 KJV) must be considered so in the context of circumstances. The context is the overall work of Reconstruction from Ruin and the preparation of the Earth and a new world for Man. The term "very good" does not mean "perfect," and the sea of separation placed between the world above and the world below was not good, but necessary. It would not be until the work of the Lord Jesus Christ on the cross that a way would be made for crossing that barrier (the sea, or waters, above the firmament).

Third Heaven
This now gives us a better understanding of what the Apostle Paul was talking about in the book of II Corinthians 12:2, where he speaks of a place called the "third heaven":
"I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven."
(II Cor. 12:2 KJV)
Although the "third heaven" is not directly mentioned in the Genesis narrative, the established structure of all things is defined in Genesis 1 and, when understood, allows us to comprehend exactly where and what Paul was talking about when he mentions the "third heaven" in his letter. It also gives the reader a better understanding of John's vision in Revelation 4. Again, when the Lord God divided the waters He created a boundary which presently exists between the two lower heavens (which constitute the firmament) and the third heaven (where the throne of God is). That boundary is that "Sea," and again that "sea" is above the two heavens of the firmament. It is also likened in places to crystal or smooth glass:  
And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above.
(Ezekiel 1:22 KJV)
The reason it appears like a smooth, crystal surface is because it is frozen:
"The waters are hid as [with] a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen."
(Job 38:30 KJV)
"And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness."
(Exodus 24:10 KJV)
It is also likened to glass:
And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
(Revelation 15:2 KJV)
With this understanding of what exactly the Firmament is and the structure of all things that God made during the seven days, many things that were previously obscure suddenly take on real meaning and enrich the reader's understanding.
In summary, here is the structure of the physical world as it now exists from the face of the Earth upwards:
The lower sea of physical waters (our seas and oceans)
The first heaven (the atmosphere)
The second heaven (outer space)
The sea above outer space and below the third heaven (a sea of separation)
And above it all, there is the Third Heaven.
"That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what [is] the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God."
(Ephesians 3:17-19 KJV)
The structure of the heavens is a recurring theme throughout the Bible. It is reinforced (in typology) throughout the Bible. For example, it is likened to the floors of a building, which we call "stories," and sure enough, the same word is even used in the KJV Bible.
1. To describe the design of the heavens:
"[It is] he that buildeth his stories in the heaven, and hath founded his troop in the earth; he that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD [is] his name."
(Amos 9:6 KJV)
2. This pattern of three (3) levels is also found is some other important things in the Bible, an example being the description of the design of Noah's Ark:
"A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; [with] lower, second, and third [stories] shalt thou make it."
(Genesis 6:16 KJV)
3. To describe the construction of the Temple:
"The door posts, and the narrow windows, and the galleries round about on their three stories, over against the door, cieled with wood round about, and from the ground up to the windows, and the windows [were] covered;"
(Ezekiel 41:16 KJV)
In the construction of Moses' Tabernacle in the wilderness there were three main parts: 1) The outer court, where the brazen altar of sacrifice was. 2) The Holy Place, where the candlestick, table of shewbread, and golden altar of incense were. 3) The Holy of Holies where the Ark of the covenant was. Also note that between parts two and three was a curtain for a partition, which matches the "sea" above the firmament (in type) in the structure of the Three Heavens. It is no coincidence that all these Biblical things have a similar three-tiered structure. There is much spiritual insight to be gained in further study of those things:
Three Heavens
Three levels inside Noah's Ark
Three floors in a section of the Temple
Three sections to Moses' Tabernacle
Concerning the design of the Temple, keep in mind that Moses' tent Tabernacle and Solomon's Temple both had three (3) main parts:
The outer court
The holy place (where the table, lamp and incense alter was, outside the veil)
The Most Holy Place (where the Ark was, behind the veil)
As you can see, this theme of structure based on threes is consistent throughout the Bible. Even the structure of the Earth has three (3) main divisions: the core, the mantle, and the crust.
Does the Universe really have a structure? When you go into outer space is there really any such thing as up and down? It there a top and bottom? Does the cosmos have a definite shape? We cannot observe such in our three-dimensional view of the universe.
I found an interesting article in volume 25, number 1, of Discover  Magazine (page 37) where this subject is briefly discussed. Using observations from the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe, or WMAP, which observes the faint cosmic microwave background of space, scientists have been able to reconstruct the "exact proportions" of the cosmos. They found that there is only 4% "normal" matter, 23% "dark" matter and "73% "dark energy" out there. To quote the article: "Those figures indicate that the universe is flat and will most likely continue to expand forever."
This is what can be observed, but is that all that is really out there? Not according to the Bible! In the words of Lord Himself there is a world above the one we live in and can observe:
"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."
(John 8:23 KJV)
Just because we cannot observe or understand something does not disprove its existence.
The 2nd & 3rd HeavenWHERE ARE THEY SITUATED?
St. Paul says in 2 Corintians chapter 12 verse 1:
"It is doubtless not expedient for me to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ more than fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knows.) Such a one caught UP to the THIRD HEAVEN. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knows;) 4 How that he was caught UP into PARADISE, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."
Here St. Paul knew a Christian man, probably he is talking about himself,---whether in or out of a body he couldn't tell---who was one time caught UP to the third Heaven and the other was caught UP into Paradise!
"Hey, wait a minute, I just read in another one of your pages that Paradise was under the Earth?"
Well yes, but NOT ONLY? Obviously there is another one Upstairs somewhere! "Somewhere over the rainbow!" Paul wrote this epistle some 30 years after the Resurrection, mind you, and unless it had always been up there also, maybe by that time Paradise had been moved by the Lord? Out from under the Earth and placed somewhere else?--Unless they kept the old place of course! Maybe it is even still in use nowadays!--For souls that get saved in the spiritual world and are liberated into the lower Paradise, until they are ready to come up to the Upper One! Maybe at the return of Jesus?
Perhaps the Lord moved all the formerly "unsaved" from before the Great Flood of Noah, who got saved when Jesus visited and preached to them in the spirit prison in Hades, into that lower Paradise! And in order to make room there, he moved all the old Testament Saved Saints up from the lower Paradise into an upper Paradise! Because it is written even, that after the resurrection of Jesus:
Matthew 27:52 …the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Perhaps they did not even go up into the Third Heaven, where the Father may be—the wider Heavenly Realm—but someplace else! Some other section of "the Realm" of the Kingdom of God, a Second Heaven, that is still part of E=MC², our Time and Space Warp! Some kind of way-station perhaps?—Like a "Hallway to Heaven"? Where most of us who are saved, go first, before we are able to go into the Third Heaven? Let's see if these things be so?
The Apostle Paul talks about one guy (probably himself) going UP into Paradise and another going UP into the 3rd Heaven! So they must have been different places, otherwise why call them different names? So then, there must be at least THREE Heavens!
And yes, most Bible scholars believe that there are three! The First Heaven is here within the atmospheric heavens all around our globe Earth and inside of it, the paradise below, where angels and ministering spirits as well as the demons have their work-field. As Paul says in Ephesians 2:2:
"…in time past you walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience"
That's Satan, Lucifer, the Devil! He is the Prince of the Power of the AIR, who also causes violent weather and destructive hurricanes etc.! He and His rebel angels, that are not yet imprisoned for some reason, move throughout the earth and the atmosphere!
Next, scholars believe,--and people who went there in a Near Death Experience also testify to that-- that the SECOND Heaven is somewhere out in Space, our Universe or Cosmos, and that the THIRD Heaven is outside of the Cosmos, "beyond the stars!" Not BEHIND the Cosmos, because the Cosmos doesn't end! Space consists of nothing, and nothing can't end, right? Perhaps we imagined that there is some enormous wall or shell around the huge Cosmos, but after that wall or shell—if it existed—there would yet be another SPACE! More nothingness! ON AND ON AND ON, ad infinitum!
Therefore we believe, that the Third Heaven cuts through all that Space and Time bit, not being subject to it at all! Not subject to our limited 4 dimensions, Length, Width, Height—Space—and Time! Because the Heavenly Realm has many more dimensions than we can even imagine! They are much greater and more versatile, not limited to 4 dimensions, and therefore not even subject to our Universe! Therefore, as Einstein believed, God's invisible Universe cuts right through ours! It is all around, in and through us folks, and not light years away either! They are not even subject to E=MC2!!! Time will be no more here, and Time IS no more There! As Jesus said;
"before Abraham was… I am!"
NOT SUBJECT to TIME, and NEITHER to SPACE! How about? Doesn’t that blow your mind?
Just like, "kindergarten is in the World, but the world is not in Kindergarten!" Savvy? The Bible doesn't talk any more about that 3rd Heaven than that, and as a result we don't know more than what St. Paul said about it, and he didn't say anymore about it, because maybe he wasn't supposed to? So we'll just have to wait till we get there!
4 "How that he was caught UP into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."
TRUE! It doesn't say... "the 2nd Paradise." Although there might still be two, we don't know that for sure! But about this UP Paradise, we know the following from Revelation 2:7:
"…To him that overcomes will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God."
Now we know, that that paradise is in the same place as where the tree of life is now, eversince Jesus' resurrection! And that is the place we are going to explore next and where we—those of us who are saved—will go and live when we die and go to be with Jesus! Jesus said something very significant about that place in John 14:1. He said:
"Let not your heart be troubled: you believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a PLACE for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a PLACE for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there you may be also."
What did he say? In my Fathers HOUSE! So this Heaven—in the Second Heaven—Jesus describes as a HOUSE! Then He says:
"In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you."
He says that in this House there are even many mansions, villas, big apartments! WOW! You want one? He says that if it wasn't true, he would have told us that it wasn't true! He is saying: "I cannot tell a lie"! In other words: "You better believe it, brother!" Getting interested? It wouldn't surprise us!"

"So, what kind of place IS that?" you ask. Good question! Because most people assume that Heaven is not a PLACE! They think it's some kind of ephemeral, nebulous, evanescent, fleeting cloud on some spiritual plane or something. Nothing solid, nothing fleshly, nothing real or concrete! Well they're wrong! Jesus said it Himself! He said:
"I go to prepare a place for you."
A WHAT? A PLACE! He said that before His resurrection! He said:
"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."
Wow He said, He will come again and receive us unto Himself, that where He is, we may be also! "Ah", you say, "See? We'll have to wait until He comes back! So if we die now, we also go under the Earth! To Lower Paradise!"
Nope! We, the saved, don't go downstairs anymore.. Anyway, we can't prove it to you, but that's what the Scripture indicates! And also what Near Death Experiencers tell us! We could even give you a verse that seems to go in the opposite direction: Revelation 6:9
"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held!"
This is talking about a time just before the second Coming of Jesus, that the martyrs—saved people—cry out from under the altar! Now you'll have to prove to us, that the altar means the Earth! We can't find any scripture for that anywhere! We believe the altar is and means God's service! And these martyrs have come down off that altar of sacrifice, and are watching the ones that are on it now! Us!
Remember Paul knew someone "in or out of the body"—that's important—that was caught UP to Paradise! So why was this man caught up, and not us? Was he better than us or something? No, of course not, but we believe that Jesus meant that after His return and our coming resurrection, He will only THEN be able to receive us unto His SELF in body as He already is!—In His resurrected body! He will then resurrect us all and marry us, the Bride of Christ, which he won't be able to do until then!
There is the "in-the-body, out-of-the-body" bit! When we die now before the resurrection, we go to that place out of the body, in spirit!—meaning our essence or spirit form! Without flesh and bones! And if we die, Jesus will also bring us back down with Him from space, at His Return to earth! Another proof that we go UP! 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17
"For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep (are dead) in Jesus, will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall DESCEND from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Jude 1:14 "And Enoch also… prophesied of these, saying, 'Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his saints"
When we die He will receive us unto Himself, as many people experienced in Near Death Experiences, that sometimes Jesus came personally to the end of the tunnel or even on Earth where the person died, and received them unto Himself! He hugged and enveloped them with His Spirit! And it felt so good that they never wanted to leave Him any more! They had to be tricked, forced or talked into going back! Ha!
So, after His resurrection, Jesus went to prepare a PLACE for us. He went to build that place! Now we personally believe that it already had foundations in those days, and that Jesus and His resurrected Old Testament Saints did have a bare floor, so to speak, to set up camp in and to start building! The writer of this article personally believes that the hull was already in place in 30 AD and even before! But it only hadn't been interior-decorated yet! But we'll get back to that later too!
So what and where is this place? Well when we have a question, we always do what? We always go back to His Word, to see what the Bible says about it or the prophets and even what the prophets since the Bible said that corroborates it! As Moses said: Numbers 11:29
"Do you envy for my sake? I wished God, that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!
And Jesus said in Luke 11:49
"Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute!"
Jesus has sent us many post-Bible prophets throughout the ages, Augustinus, Francis of Assisi, Martin Luther, John Wesley, D.L.Moody, etc. and they all had all kinds of revelations about these things, like St. Paul did too. He called this place--the second Paradise Upstairs--in Galatians 4:26 ;

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